Digital Vomit Records

What's with the MP3 releases? I thought when DV was started, people were going "this is not a netlabel, we want effort going into every release, a physical item, blah blah"…

Was it all just talk? People like talking.

Nobody's got any money anymore. :p

Funny, I was just having second thoughts (for the nth time) about putting out a physical CD
after the recent "nobody cares about physical product anymore" thread. It seems like an awful
lot of money to lay out for something maybe 10 people are going to actually buy. The only reason
I still want to do it is - no physical product, no PRESS.

Phisical product rocks.

well obviously things are going to change as more people join DV. anyway, i wouldn't say that DV is a netlabel. i cant think of any other netlabels out there that actual release physical things.

mitch pretty much brought up the deciding factor…..MONEY…..with releases like CBML this isn't really a problem, but its hard to get the money together to release a cd of your own. even if its just cd-r's in a plastic sleeve, i couldn't afford even that for my album right now….so im going to wait until i have the money to do it properly.

i wasn't around when DV first started, but i reckon all the talk was probably down to people being excited about something new starting. when you put these things into practice there are all sorts of problems you hadn't considered before.

Personally I'll always be happy to put my money forwards for something here, but I've not been able to write any tunes for ages due to lack of time and broken PC… That's my excuse anyway…

we want effort going into every release

And I think effort does go into every release here, be it MP3 or CD… I still think we should be proud of ourselves here - yes, there's a netlabel aspect, but equally you could go into Sister Ray or Rough Trade and see CBML4 on the shelves, looking every bit as at home there as the latest thing from Warp or whoever.

At the end of the day, we've managed to organise a number of collective releases with no central committee, we've run as an entity for a number of years, and a lot of us have had an outlet for music that we wouldn't have had otherwise. It's all good. If this is it, and we never do another thing again, it's still brilliant, and it's all been worth it.

i cant think of any other netlabels out there that actual release physical things.

Wasn't Who Killed BumHong a limited CDR, Pidge?

I have released stuff on cd before and it was always just a cheap disc with crappy felt tip writing on.
This was because i wanted to emphasise the unimportance of marketing and image and concentrate on the sounds.
I mean, what is the purpose of a physical release? Is it visual art? Is it practical i.e for people without any file playing equipment? I really can't even begin to imagine that a physical release could be considered more relevant.
I think i would only do it to make money.
This issue confuses me.

"What's with the MP3 releases? I thought when DV was started, people were going "this is not a netlabel, we want effort going into every release, a physical item, blah blah"…

Was it all just talk? People like talking."

Good fucking question. One I would have asked ages ago if I weren't such a pussy.

I'll respond in full tomorrow, when I'm a little less…….. emotional, I think is the only word to use at the moment. Actually, "pissed" and "off" would be two others I could use.

i'm not asking to be hostile, the fact was always just there as a mental block to me, and stopped me from releasing my own shitty music on DV, as it would have to be on a physical medium and therefore too much effort.

"who killed bumhong?" was indeed a limited CD-R release - in fact, that was the point, as it couldn't then be removed from discogs for being an MP3-only release.

I really can't even begin to imagine that a physical release could be considered more relevant.

Well, I have a dream… a dream that someday my album will stand alongside such classics as Aphex Twin's drukQs and Weezer's Pinkerton as Rolling Stone's pick for Worst Album of the Year. Considering the source, I can't imagine higher praise than that….

i think we are all (artists, DV members, the industry) at a crossroads in terms of how to deal with distribution of product and whether a physical product is even necessary at this point. we all grew up believing that getting a CD/Vinyl album released was somehow the "thing" that would cement us in history (however dubiously). obviously, things are different at this point.

i started DV because i saw the futility of running a traditional product-based label and hoped to subvert this paradigm (sorry for that word usage) by making physical product just as easily released as an MP3. in theory, it worked. we avoided the overhead involved with physical replication, yet new barriers arose…..gathering artists' money, organizing creative people, dealing with coke-head thieves…it all begged the question "is physical product even worth the trouble?"

the answer is "i don't know". ultimately, i love having shit out there on a shiny disc or a black piece of grooved plastic, and it does help to gain a higher profile and recognition, but the truth is that most people have no need for a CD any longer. all of my personal CDs just sit on a shelf collecting dust. in fact, they are such a pain in the ass to rip to MP3 that now i actually download things i already own for convenience' sake.

it's a double edged sword… you apparently "need" a physical CD to get radio play, brick-and-mortal distro, reviews, yet most of us could care less for the things.

this WILL change. when the old guard finally dies off and only a generation weened on digital media exists, THEN mp3s will have the "legitimacy" factor. unfortunately, there is still an old stigma attached to a solely digital release.

none of this answers the question: is DV a netlabel? the answer is "who knows?" i think DV is a gelatinous, amorphous blob that will follow the course that leads to the most listeners for the least amount of monetary investment. i hope there is something more concrete than the stigmatized netlabel moniker, but our future may lie in solely digital "product"….or, there may be no future. we are in the same limbo as traditional labels are in, except the difference is we have nothing to lose and everything to gain. we have nothing to stop us from pursuing radical new means of distribution. the sky's the limit and failure holds no consequence. we are FREE, and that in and of itself is a good thing.

and, for the record, you, Taras "Pidgin" Young, are one of the primary reasons i stopped organizing physical releases. when the proverbial shit hit the fan after the catastrophe with Max Machismo stealing our pressing funds……you went on the CRD forum and slagged DV for being a so-called democratic label that lacked any real innovation. i know this was a reactionary statement based on the prospect of losing money on the Dry Heaves fiasco, but it hurt me profoundly, nonetheless.

i took your statements, however trivial in our cyber-space-forum-bullshit world to heart, and am frankly surprised that you still find the motivation to grace us with your presence. i genuinely believed you hated all that we stand for (or at least, all the I stand for).

anyways, this forum and community need not be a collection of circle-jerkers and sycophants, and i appreciate some honest feedback….nonetheless, i do find it puzzling whenever you appear on this forum.

pardon my candid response….i have no hard feelings at this point, but felt the need to finally vent some long-held frustration. we're all friends here…dammit/

or perhaps i'm too thin-skinned for this whole music scene.

yeah, i'm not sure why i come back either.

glutton for punishment, me. (you know, aside from being a heartless bastard who hates everyone!)

by the way, that stuff about DV not being innovative wasn't a reactionary statement, and i stand by it. it also wasn't on CRD as far as I recall, as I haven't posted there for years and years!

don't take things you read on the internet seriously, they're usually only other people's uninformed opinions.

i'm honestly not seeking an argument, but if you do indeed feel that we lack innovation, then why not pursue exposure elsewhere? i know that i wouldn't whore myself to some place that i felt was beneath me.

also….it must have been planet mu, then, because i don't visit any other forums…..which makes it worse because 10x more people read about your disdain for us.

but, whatever…..if we all actually make it to dublin in october i'm sure i'll find you to be charming and affable. everyone else i've disliked on the internet has turned out to be a lovely person in reality.

love,

james

mixomatosis:

I'll respond in full tomorrow, when I'm a little less…….. emotional, I think is the only word to use at the moment. Actually, "pissed" and "off" would be two others I could use.«

before you get too 'emotional' lee, please take a moment to consider that is was partly due to people like yourself that my 'breaking the law' compilation has not seen the light of day yet. the number of DV people who went back on their word for that one really demoralized me. also, from about half of the people who did send stuff, the quality of the tracks is really bad. it's a shame, cos there are a few real gems, but with the number of people who said they'd do stuff and didn't, I really couldn't be bothered to even TRY and get money off people to release it as a cd.

also, i sent about 3 or 4 emails to swerve at dual plover, and every time he sent me partial or incorrect quotes, and he never got back to me with an answer to 'how much will it cost to make 500 cd's and send them to japan?'

i reckon that one is just going to have to be discarded as a "bad idea in the first place, that never got better". honestly really sorry to the few people who did make a real effort, and did good tracks, but you can always use your track for something else if it was a worthwhile one anyway, right?

wow, it's become a "get shit off of your chest" thread!

any more grievances to air? let's get 'em all out now, i guess….

again, let's face it though: this decentralized label concept has always been fraught with potential disasters and disappointments precisely because you can't always count on a group at large to organize themselves successfully. it's simply the nature of the beast….but we've managed to overcome this obvious obstacle enough times to make it all a somewhat glorious experiment overall, and for that i'm proud.

but yeah….if physical releases are indeed the end goal for most people, i say: DO IT, THEN. no one is stopping you except yourself. thus far, less than 10% (and this is being very generous) of us have actually organized and followed a physical release through to completion.

this label is what you make it. if you've been disappointed you've only yourself to blame.

Personally I'd rather see Breaking The Law released as an MP3 release than not at all.

any more grievances to air? let's get 'em all out now, i guess….

In that case (: …

EDIT - Added the right quote above

also, from about half of the people who did send stuff, the quality of the tracks is really bad.

You know what? F*ck that attitude. I don't really care if half the tracks stink. For something like this project, the proposal was "Hey, let's do something with this concept", not "Right lads, I want everyone to make the best music they possibly can". I mean (no offense to anyone who's track was on it), but the execution of the V/Vm Relax release was pretty damn poor (more than half the tracks sound the same to me, and only one or two really take the original apart), but I still love it as a release, because it's a great concept. As I still believe Breaking the Law to be.

I think as physical (i.e. funded) releases go, you have two options - if everyone's going to pay their share, take their track, their money, and make it happen whatever their track sounds like (this is how CBML works). If you pay for it partly or entirely on your own, then you can make editorial decisions.

Hardoff, why don't you just bundle the tracks you have together in a zip, upload them somewhere and call it a day (:

it must have been planet mu, then, because i don't visit any other forums…..which makes it worse because 10x more people read about your disdain for us.

I think it was V/Vm, because I saw it too. And bad press is better than none at all. In fact, James, Mu tore you apart so good that I'd be honored if they hated me.

And as long as we're being snarky, Mike Paradinas hasn't made a decent album since he went digital.

Hardoff:

1) I'd had a bad day, which was why I was pissed off. Nothing to do with what was written here. I still am, but that's not important.
2) The reason I didn't contribute anything was because I didn't think anything I'd done was good enough. Believe me, I tried. And given that "from about half of the people who did send stuff, the quality of the tracks is really bad", I'm very glad I didn't send any of them now. I can't speak for anyone else, of course.

Pidgin: I had actually written a really lengthy response, but then Solypsis went and summed it up better than I ever could:

"this label is what you make it. if you've been disappointed you've only yourself to blame."

I can't improve on that.

heh heh,

best thread ever

DRAMA!

I had a search, and that quote was originally on CRD, sorry. you have a very good, long memory james. Here's the quote:

"a collective with leaders, claiming socialism but actually in essence extremely capitalist, releasing non-challenging music and an increasing number of mp3 compilations" (Dec 2006)

Mixo sent me a very long - and friendly - email about how wrong I was in 2006. Every day I still feel humiliated that I was wrong. And I'm glad those accusations still don't apply to DV. Let's move on … this thread is becoming like an emotional issue of The Wire.

P.S. We should have all saved our enormous unposted and rethought responses and published them in a booklet called "Projectile Wretching".

james fyi this is what i sent robostud last night re. the gig(i'm sure he won't mind):

"actually I'd better not come, solypsis apparently hates me and I don't
want a beating from a yank!

seriously though, I've been doing the maths and worked out I'll have
something like 4 days of holiday left to use before next year, and I
need those for Christmas unfortunately.

good luck with the gig!"

p.p.p.s. Isn't it cute how we all act like big hard electronica geniuses but all we really want is acceptance from the group in everything we do? :)

p.p.p.p.s. ..and that that acceptance often comes from creating rejection from the bigger group. engineered outsiderism!

OK, you nailed me, I'm a pussy and I suck. Happy?

"a collective with leaders, claiming socialism but actually in essence extremely capitalist, releasing non-challenging music and an increasing number of mp3 compilations" (Dec 2006)

Hahahahah….

Leaders - we wish, if more people stepped up to lead, we'd get more stuff done.

Socialist - hardly, not an altruist amongst us (anarchist would be a better description)

Extremely capitalist - hahahah, best yet, god, if only we had some capitalist business sense here amongst us

Non-challenging music - I'm guilty of that, but some of the gems on CBMLs have been awesome in that regard, and overall at least we have some ideals of pushing the boundries and not just waiting for Warp, Planet Mu or whoever to knock on our door.

OK, now that I've had a nice relaxing visit to the dentist….

Pidge, you're exactly right about me. I'm a poseur. Not on purpose, though. I tried like hell to convince myself that I wasn't about ego and trying to be a star, and I bought the lie, but that didn't stop it being a lie.

So henceforth I will try to put my music out in ways that don't enable my ego to sneak up and bite me in the a*s. And not talk about it so much. If I spent as much time making music as I've spent in the past few years engineering an image, I'd be as prolific as Zappa.

Kurt Cobain is dead, the window of opportunity for a geezer like me to make history has closed, I'm pretty bitter about that, but it's time to move on, find something else to live for, and keep the music thing a hobby.

we're hitting on something here - ambition.

edit: blah blah blah

"Pidge, you're exactly right about me. I'm a poseur. Not on purpose, though. I tried like hell to convince myself that I wasn't about ego and trying to be a star, and I bought the lie, but that didn't stop it being a lie."

fuck that. i don't know if you're having a bad day, but this is bullshit and you know it.

(sorry if that sounded harsh…but i know you well enough to know you are about as genuine as they get and the polar opposite of "poseur"….a "poseur" is someone who frequents message boards and talks all kind of condescending crap whilst simultaneously using said message board for self-promotion and "career" advancement).

Is DigiVom a record label? Is it a netlabel? Is it a f*cking cross-channel ferry? Does any of this matter? No.

As far as I was aware, we are people who make music (apparently) and DigiVom exists as a means to get that music out there - whether that means physical releases, MP3s, wax cylinders, whatever. If anybody's that bothered about the MP3 releases we can always create a sister label that puts out nothing else (or is there enough of them on the internet anyway?)

And what's the big problem with ambition? If you make music surely you want it to be heard? I'm not saying you have to suck as many cocks as Mariah Carey (allegedly) did to make it or sign a godawful contract with the first label that offers you one - but it does make me wonder sometimes - are people more afraid of failure or success?

james, if i'm not really badly mistaken, mitch was being totally sarcastic.

Hardoff, I wish I were being sarcastic. The bits about engineered outsiderism and just wanting to be
approved of by the group hit waaaay too close to home. I'm the Dan Fogelberg of techno. I'm not
tough or "street" or "punk rock lifestyle" enough to belong here. I'd rather play an art gallery than a
bar. I like Coldplay.

I should have known better than to think the "alternative" music world would be more inclusive than the
mainstream. So I'm going to shut up, start just slinging the music out there, hope and pray
someone somewhere understands it, and ignore those who don't, 'cause I've been called on my sh*t
and I'm not very happy with myself right now.

Whatever. As a relative newcomer i just wanna point out that when i found DV i felt for the first time i found i'd found a group of people other than my close friends who could appreciate my music. I respect all of you as artists and genuinely enjoy all your music and am still incredibly proud to be on CBML4.
This thrad is all so negative, and whether this is a 'clique' or not, DV has helped re-ignite my passion for making music and got me listening to all your great tracks, which is bloody lovely.

i've been staying out of this (apart from at the very beginning) because some of you seem to be pissed off with each other in ways that i wasn't aware of. but here's what i've got to say:

pidgin: it seems like almost every post you put in this thread was purposefully trying to get a rise out of people. i dont know why you would bother to do this, but if you have a problem with DV then dont be a part of it anymore. im not trying to be rude, but as james already said, if you hate DV so much why do you keep coming back?

mitch: come on, seriously…..i dont think any of us are living a "punk rock lifestyle" here. (whatever that means these days)

i didn't join DV in the first place because i thought it might be the gateway to something in the mainstream….and i certainly didn't join because i thought people would listen to stuff i made and say "wow, thats great"…the main reason i joined was that there seemed to be alot of like minded people here who wanted to get stuff out there for the fun…and thats exactly what (in my opinion) DV should be, FUN. who cares if its an MP3 release or a CD or whatever…does it matter? as long as you had fun making the track you submitted, it doesn't matter if it never gets noticed by anyone ever…….

may i also suggest that if you want to bitch at each other some more, then please do it by e-mail….most of them seem to be personal issues you have with each other and im really not interested in hearing them.